Page 1 of Asian (as in chinese) films

ok, i am majorly confused when it comes to the languages.

the imdb say that most if not all the fun films are in mandarin, not cantonese. yet whenever i watch such films including the recent `house of flying daggers` there is no signs of dubbing despite me using cantonese language tracks (imdb lists lingo as mandarin).

so which is right?

Mandarin is spoken in mainland China, Canotnese is spoken in Hong Kong. House of Flying Daggers was filmed in Mandarin.


My DVD collection.

how come the mandarin track looks dubbed then?

I`m not saying it`s the case here as it`s a while since i`ve seen this, but it`s not uncommon for Chinese films to be acted in both Mandarin and Cantonese at the same time, then re-dubbed where necessary depending on the country the print is to be released in. I`ve noticed it a few times (in other films), with two people in a scene, one dubbed and the other not.

Most films are looped in post-production anyway. HOFD features both native Mandarin (Zhang Ziyi) and Cantonese (Andy Lau) speakers, and there`s a featurette on the new DVD that has Andy Lau in the dubbing studio re-doing his lines.

I recently received Warriors Two, which is an old Hong Kong flick shot in Korea. A lot of the dialogue had to be looped for that.

The thing I have a hard time getting my head around is all the different translations of names in the subtitles of various releases. A lot of the time they just seem to be plain wrong. If anyone here speaks antonese let me know as I have questions that need answers! ;)

This item was edited on Wednesday, 26th January 2005, 03:36

I can`t read/write but I can speak Cantonese. What`s the question?

Well it`s more a series of things to do with the translations of people`s names in subtitles. It specifically relates to the recent Warriors Two release, in which Sammo Hung`s character is constantly referred to as Fei Chun, yet the subtitles call him Fatty.

Now someone has told me that Fei means `fat` in Cantonese (and is a term of endearment), but I was wondering if it depends on the context? For example, Andy Lau`s character in Moon Warriors is called Ah Fei (I`m told Ah is just a prefix used for familiarity etc), but he`s clearly not fat. Chow Yun-fat is called Gou Fei in Full Contact, but again, not particularly fat. My thoughts on this one isthat it could mean bigger/older/greater brother (that`s if my understanding of Gou is correct).

Also in Moon Warriors, there`s a character referred to as Yuet in the subtitles, yet she is clearly called Yuet Ah-yee by people in the film. I`m just curious as to why they refer to her by what is essentially her surname? I`m sure a lot of it is down to bad translation or `westernisation` of the subtitles, but I like to get these things right when reviewing. It just bugs me when they translate the names as a generic `Fatty` (such as in Heart of the Dragon) - why not just translate the names as spoken and let people discover their meaning? Bugs me as much as people writing Ziyi Zhang and pronouncing the `Z` in her surname.

Sorry, I know this is quite long-winded, but I`m useless at languages and it took me long enough to learn how to pronouce the Chinese title of Warriors Two. Don`t even get me started on the different spellings I`ve seen for Leung Jan and Chan Wah-shun... it`s enough to make my head spin!

Now, this is where it gets tricky and it all gets lost when you try to romanise the pronounciation of cantonese words. In mandarin, there are four ways to intone a syllable (I say mandarin because I don`t know exactly how many ways there are in cantonese to intone a syllable).
So in cantonese, Fei can be fat, and intoned slightly differently, Fei can also be flight/fly. I didn`t watch Warriors Two and I can`t read/write chinese, but Sammo Hung`s character`s name should be "Chun". Whether this is his first or last name is undetermined. They attach "Fei" to it because he is fat. Ie. Fat Dave, One-Eyed Jack.
As for Yuet Ah-yee. I didn`t see Moon Warriors either but Ah-yee can also mean a couple of things and I can`t be sure which until I hear it. Intoned one way, Ah-yee could mean "Aunty". And another way, it could mean "number 2". Maybe she was the second born or second sister. OR, it could just be her name is Yuet Ah Yee. :)
When it comes to chinese names, it is very common for chinese people to say "My name is Chen Wei Kang (mandarin pronounciation). As in Wei Ta`s "Wei". And Jian Kang`s "Kang". Chen is a typical chinese last name. In this case, Wei Ta means selfless, giving, kind. Jian Kang means healthy. People introduce themselves this way so that other people know how to write their name. :) (Okay, just an example, probably a lousy name).
So, a name is just a name. Chinese names usually mean something but it might have no relation to the story. Some times they do. Fei Chun is Fatty cause "Fat" is his nickname. Yuet Ah-yee is just "Yuet" because that is her name and no particular meaning is intended.
I think there is no such thing as a "perfect" subtitle that can fully bring the meaning of the original language, jokes or play of words across.
In teochew (a chinese dialect), there are EIGHT ways to intone a syllable. :P

You know that might actually make sense. In Moon Warriors Andy Lau`s character spends most of the time flying around the screen, so Ah Fei could be relevant in the flight/fly sense. Also, the characters refer to each other as brother and sister a lot (Brother Yen - I think Yen Dai Goh is possibly the Cantonese for it). So him calling Yuet sister is perfectly understandable (now that I know what it can mean).

I`d still have preferred they call Sammo Fei Chun or Chun, because he`s not really called fatty (just fat Chun). I guess I was off the mark with Chow Yun-fat`s character Gou Fei being older brother, because Cantonese for brother is goh (isn`t it?). I get very confused, and perhaps I`m looking for meaning where there is none.

I`d like to see Hong Kong Legends do something like put the translations of character names on the DVDs as an extra. Bey Logan does a pretty god job, but quite often he appears to be commentating on dubbed versions of the films as he uses character names like Simon or Sam (when the subtitles use the Chinese names). The worst one I can think of is Heart of the Dragon where the subtitles actually call Sammo Hung`s character Danny... The dubtitles on that disc really are bad, as highlighted when Bey Logan`s translation of an exchange between two characters bears no resemblance to the subtitles!

Anyway, thanks for helping me out - it`s appreciated. What i really need is a fit Chinese girlfriend to translate for me!

Quote:
The dubtitles on that disc really are bad, as highlighted when Bey Logan`s translation of an exchange between two characters bears no resemblance to the subtitles!

It`s common to have dubs and subs of the same dialogue give two different meanings for the simple reason that the dubbing has to match the lips. For instance the Japanese `domo arigato gozaimashi-ta` can mean `thanks`; no problem in subs, but the dub would have to be something like be `cheers mate, and by the way those shoes don`t go with those pants`. Possibly.

This item was edited on Thursday, 27th January 2005, 02:20