Page 1 of Is "Torture Pr0n" A Valid Description? (Please Vote On "Is" Poll above)

Current buzzword for critics is the description of the current vogue for horror movies (particularly the output of Eli Roth) as "Torture Pr0n". Now anybody who knows me knows I absolutely loathe that kind of picture, but the last time I made comments about movies which victimise particularly women, I got a right telling off from a couple of people I used to respect.

I`d really like to know - from anybody who cares to explain - are these movies just good old-fashioned family fun scare movies with state-of-the-art special effects? Or are they a bit more sinister than that? Can the charge be levelled at them that they are pandering to closet sadists, and desensitising the audience to acts that would once have been described as atrocities?

I am perched here on the fence waiting for a nanswer.

EDIT: I tried to turn this into a poll but the system lost "Torture Pron" A Valid Description in the title between me typing it and submitting it.

J Mark Oates

This item was edited on Friday, 13th July 2007, 23:19

Torture porn is a myth just like the snuff films of the 70s, it is hyped up by the media such as The Daily Mail. This so called torture porn is manufactured by Hollywood, by film makers who think they can re-capture the spirit of 70/ early 80s exploitation flicks,, such as: Last House on the Left, I Spit on your Grave, Cannibal Holocaust/Ferox, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Evil Dead, Driller Killer, Zombi 2, etc but fails miserably.

What this new wave is failing to understand was that those films from the 70s/80s were made on a shoestring, and sometimes there were a lot of outdoor guerrilla movie making, there was a real underground movement with horror films back then, that was not only made in America, but also all over the world mainly from Italy.

The films were raw, unfinished, with shocking editing, and that's what made the movies so shocking to the audience, because also nobody saw that type of moviemaking before. Also because of budget limitations a lot of them never showed the gore and was left up to your imagination, which made it even worse, take The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

But the new wave can't do that, because the film makers think that the only way to make money is to overload on gore but in a sadistic way, and then they think the audience will lap it up, when in fact the only people who'll lap it up is teens just starting puberty.

They're also done on a modest budget and everything involved in making a horror movie is pre-planned from start to finish, and also MPAA controlled.

floyd
simply bored witless by the entire saga of Luke Skywalker.... I thought Star Wars was dull, Empire was better, Jedi was worse.
Mark Kermode

I haven`t seen Hostel 2 yet, but

Surely Ichi The Killer is one of the biggest weirdo fantasy`s ever (and is so highly rated) but in my opinion it is the worst film I have ever seen, and I have seen some s***e films.



My DVD collection

I dunno my gf and I like Ichi the Killer, and like Hostel, the 3 Saw films, Rob Zombies 2 films. We like some modern horrow films. We also like the Evil Dead films, Brain Dead, Shaun of the Dead, and even some actual scary films.

We thought Hostel was a black comedy.
at one point a "bad guy" slips on some blood and maimes himself with a chainsaw, how is that not funny?

we both p***ed ourselves laughing at that bit, and when the kids attack the car. It`s so OTT it`s great.

Our DVD collection also has titles such as The Incredibles, Shrek Bug Life. We don`t get any "sexual thrill" for modern horror films, sometimes we want to see blood and guts, sometimes explosions, sometimes superheroes, sometimes cute cartoons.

I think a lot of it is media wanting to stir things about without thinking about it. We should ban some chewing gum adverts as well, cos According to Bill Hicks they could be food pr0n ;)

This item was edited on Saturday, 14th July 2007, 07:39

Quote:
Torture porn is a myth just like the snuff films of the 70s, it is hyped up by the media such as The Daily Mail. I don`t agree with that whatsoever. I think it`s a completely valid description of what these films are - I think you`re missing the point of the thread floyd.

Many viewers are seemingly getting their kicks out of watching horror films, where individuals are no longer just chased through woodland, but are held down (sometimes within a device, if required), and tortured for the pleasure of the audience.

My biggest issue is that generally the films are done without any kind of humour. I have a strong stomach for horror violence and gore, but when they use extreme torture and horror purely for viewer titilation, you have to worry. The Saw films go straight in at #1 everytime, and the films only single purpose is to have a variety of setups involving people being tortured, based around a loose and ridiculous plot. And people lap it up. They are done completely without humour (with the exception of Hostel, as mentioned above), and no hint of irony, they are generally just soulless and exploitative.

That new film Captivity - the whole marketing campaign was based on a girl being tortured to death, right? I think we should be more worried that people are getting their kicks out of these films, which as is suggested by the phrase `gorn` or `torture porn`, is becoming a borderline fetish. Is it a post 9/11 thing?

If I remember rightly, HaGGis has done some writings on this. Be interesting to hear his viewpoint.

I`m with admars in that sometimes I just want to see some horror and gore now and again at the movies, it doesn`t mean I want to do what`s depicted or anything, it`s just fun to get scared once in a while. I know people say hostel et al aren`t scary, and I wouldn`t put it up there with Texas Chainsaw, but I`d say it`s definitely got a scariness to it (to me personally), same goes for the Saw series.

They`re not the best films in the world, but then they`re not meant to be, they`re just a bit of fun. I don`t agree with how many are being released though, it`s a bit excessive and the vast majority will be crap, but that`s how it was with the video nasties, very few stood out (and even most of them like Driller Killer are utter s***e)

I think "gorn" is here to stay for quite some time yet, but I can`t see it turning lots of people in serial killers just as the same argument has been had so many times before with video games. It`s just an audience paying for some cheap scares and escapism.

On a side note, Ben, I`ve really got to see The Office cos your sig cracks me up everytime and leaves me wondering what the hell`s going on

UQ Web Design

Ahhh.... that`s Michael thinking he`s Harry Houdini. With a name like JohnnyTV you HAVE to see The Office if you haven`t done already. Check out series 2 and 3, as the first one is very much like the UK version. ;)

I think one of the things I don`t understand, is that films like Saw etc. would have been deemed a video nasty 15-20 years ago, and probably would have found it hard getting a mainstream release. Now it`s completely acceptable and goes to the top of the box office charts. They just keep upping the bar all the time, it makes you wonder where enough will be enough.

It makes me sound like a grump, and horror IS my favourite genre, but it`s just a bit concerning that torture is now an acceptable part of everyday cinema. I think much of it comes down to the Internet, and the voyeuristic websites that let us watch some really extreme stuff if we really want to. It`s really pushed the boundaries; we can see real life `Faces of Death` just by Googling for beheadings in Iraq etc. Cinema is surely just mirroring that by bringing us the gorn genre?

A lot of it is probably also the fact that they can fake it so it looks real.

In some of those old video nasties they probably wanted to do some really cool stuff, but it looked rubbish,so they had no choice, but to have the camera cut away, so you hear a scream, then see the end result. A side effect of that Is sometimes that that creates more tension, and atmosphere, but I bet a lot of those directors would love to do a George Lucas and have blood spraying, without being able to see the hose etc ;)

But what you`re talking about in terms of what`s we`ve become accustomed to also applies to the news. Now sadly, when there is a war, we see footage taken 15mins earlier as a bomb blew up and killed people. 15 years ago, you read about it in the paper the following day.

So I guess we have all got a bit more used to seeing horrible things. But does that mean Saving Private Ryan`s intro should be more like and old B&W war film? i.e. we shouldn`t see the limbs flying, and a more realistic view of how horrible war is?

i don`t know if torture is more acceptable, just ppl know it exists and happens more. That drama on Ch4 during the week, that had a torture scene, it still made me whince, I haven`t got desensitized to it.

I`ve kind of forgotten what point I was trying to make now :/

I suppose yes, horror films have got more graphic over the years, but maybe the increase in popularity is partly due to more ppl knowing these films exist, more money is spent on them so they do look good, rather than looking like cheap rubbish. I don`t think it`s just a case that ppl are blase about seeing needles put through ppl`s sensitive bits etc

I have nothing against `Saw` as that had well drawn characters and a decent narrative. The films that should be described as `torture porn` are those in which the protagonist gets his kicks from torturing innocent victims and the filmmaker takes great joy in making the films as bloody and violent as possible. It`s the mix of language found in the `adult` film industry and scenes of horror that give rise to the `torture porn` tag. As Jenny McCarthy wrote: Quote:
Although Roth rejects [David] Edelstein`s label for his work, he himself cannot resist repeatedly playing with the language of porn to describe the ultra-violence in his films.

He peppily refers to a scene in Hostel, for example, in which a businessman directs a blowtorch on the eye of a bound female victim until it dangles uselessly from its socket, as the `eye-gasm`.and goes on to describe why he loved making his trailer for `Grindhouse` Quote:
because `it`s all money shots`.I love horror films and think that the current fad for extreme and pointless violence which the audience is supposed to get their kicks by watching can be accurately be described as `torture porn` and something the genre would be better off without.

Quote:
but it`s just a bit concerning that torture is now an acceptable part of everyday cinema.

This is from a BBC report regarding "torture porn".

Quote:
After the screening I catch up with horror film journalist and author Alan Jones, who is puzzled by the fuss over "torture porn".

"There is nothing new in this," he says. "People have been on stone slabs being tortured by people since Frankenstein."

But is there a difference when the horror has no fantasy element?

Hammer became synonymous with the horror genre in the 50s
"That`s the problem - most people can write off the Hammer movies because they can be explained away as fairytales.

"But with Hostel it`s dealing with what people don`t really want to address. And that is that the guy who`s standing next to you in the supermarket queue could be a serial killer. Not just somebody who is obviously evil."

I put this to Sue Clark, head of communications at the BBFC.

"If a film gets rated 18 by the BBFC we are not usually likely to intervene except in certain circumstances. Those exceptions are likely to be in the areas where we think there`s a risk of harm to individuals or, through their behaviour, to society."

She points out that horror films are a genre which people know and understand.

"They are not to everybody`s taste and we make sure our consumer advice flags up information so that nobody can be mistaken in what they are buying into.

"People watch these films because they are paying to be shocked and horrified."

She also gave a really good reason as to why Manhunt 2 is banned, and films such as Hostel 2 is released uncut in the UK.

Quote:
"There`s a difference between passively watching a film which we have no control over and actively taking part in a game,"

The reason is that the younger audience want fast food horror, they don`t want to sit their and watch a story driven film with a few shock moments here and there, they want the blood and the gore amped up to 11 and blasting in to their brains like a computer game, because kids nowadays have a five second attention.

floyd
simply bored witless by the entire saga of Luke Skywalker.... I thought Star Wars was dull, Empire was better, Jedi was worse.
Mark Kermode