Page 1 of Can we afford to carry these players?

OK, good performance and result. But the thing that is concerning me is that now we`ve reached the knock-out stages can we afford to carry players that are not performing to their fullest?

Beckham has by his standards been anonymous in all 3 games. Owen short on confidence and seems a yard too slow. Gerrard seems to fade in the 2nd half, although I wouldn`t drop him, this does worry me. Vassell will cause the Portuguese problems.

My other concern is that each goal we have conceded has been from a silly mistake mainly by giving a free-kick away. Now Portugal will be a different kettle of sardines as they have the kings of diving....Figo, Ronaldo, Art-Deco to name but 3. Their defenders are pretty good at crumbling when a decent tackle goes in as well. We have an excellent chance of knocking them out but we need all the guys to perform and keep their discipline. :/

Erm.... Whats your point? I assume you wouldnt drop owen and by your own admission you wouldnt drop gerrard. So which players are we carrying exactly? and who would you replace them with?

And Beckham hasnt been annoymous. His work rate and interchanging play with Gary Neville allowed us all sorts of opportunities. Just because he hasnt scored the winning goal in the 94th minute for a while, doesnt mean hes had a bad game.

No offence, but ;) , thats the sort of three pint pundit crap that i hear from my girlfriend (who knows nothing about football).

Bollocks, Beckham has been s*** in all 3 games! Even his free kicks are poor thesedays. Real powder puff efforts that even if they go over the wall, they reach the keeper at backpass pace! The second half of last season and so far this tournament he has been anonymous, and I can`t remember this "interchanging play with Gary Neville" that "allowed us all sorts of opportunities!"

That said I wouldn`t drop him as who else have we got? The England bench is very poor apart from Vassell. I also wouldn`t drop Owen because he did look sharper yesterday, it`s just his confidence is so low at the moment. He will get a goal eventually though, and I`d settle for him setting up another 3 goals on Thursday!

So I`d keep the same team as yesterday. I`m concerned about Ronaldo though. His crosses will cause havoc in our defence as we have looked really vulnerable at times. I don`t have a good feeling about this next match, hopefully I`ll be proved wrong...

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I can`t remember this "interchanging play with Gary Neville" that "allowed us all sorts of opportunities!"

We were obviously watching different games then. Because the Gary Neville on my TV screen was getting forward and into as many dangerous positions as Ashley Cole.

And also Becks was on the receiving end of some very rough treatment from the croats that hindered his passing game.

Its just the same old jive you hear from part timers the world over. Beckham will have a brilliant game on thursday and he will the best thing since sliced Rooney. And a bench of Bridge, Butt, Carragher, Joe Cole, Dyer, Hargreaves, Heskey, Vassell and King is certainly not `very poor`, considering injuries to Woodgate and Rio, arguably the best defender of WC 2002, being suspended.

This item was edited on Tuesday, 22nd June 2004, 10:23

Urm, Beckham has not been s***e. I agree with Nickthegun; just cos he`s not been scoring loads of goals and free kicks doesn`t mean he has been s***. He has been one of the most consistent right sided midfielders of the tournament has linked well with Gary Neville (who I think is currently playing out of his skin) and his work rate is still top notch.

Own just needs a break and has been playing well despite not scoring yet.

Nick

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And also Becks was on the receiving end of some very rough treatment from the croats that hindered his passing game.
Poor Becks! We`ll tell the Portugese to be gentle so that he can have a good game!

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Because the Gary Neville on my TV screen was getting forward and into as many dangerous positions as Ashley Cole.
I agree with that, but it wasn`t through interplay with Beckham.

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And a bench of Bridge, Butt, Carragher, Joe Cole, Dyer, Hargreaves, Heskey, Vassell and King is certainly not `very poor`, considering injuries to Woodgate and Rio, arguably the best defender of WC 2002, being suspended.
What`s Rio`s suspension got to do with it? I just said it was a poor bench...in my opinion! Sure it is an excellent bench considering Tony Adams has retired, Stuart Pearce too etc. In my original post, I said Vassell excluded. That leaves Dyer? Never done anything for England. Heskey? :/ Carragher? Not International quality by a long way. Bridge? A good player but when will he be needed? Butt? Injured! Hargreaves? Not gonna cause the opposition to lose much sleep is he?

England have got an excellent starting eleven, but your argument that we have got good back-up players is less than convincing! Therefore I wouldn`t drop any of the players we are carrying (getting back to the original post) as there is no-one good enough to step in.

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What`s Rio`s suspension got to do with it?

It was implied that its still a good bench, despite two of our best players being out. I will try and be more explicit in future. I may even write in capitals..........

As for the rest of your arguments, there isnt enough space here to rubbish all of them. So i will just concentrate on the one that proves my part-timer point.

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Bridge? A good player but when will he be needed?

LOL!

Got to agree with Nickthegun on these points really.

True, Beckham has not been a world class performer at this tournament, but he has been effective (who sent over the freekick that let to Lampards Goal against the French) It is always going to be harder when you are one of the most famous footballers in the world with a known short temper. Players are going to try and rile him up to get him sent off, hopefully he will maintain integrity and play better. He hasnt had the greatest of years with 2004 and maybe this is affecting him, but when the chips are down you know that he will give his all, and you cant ask for more than that.

Against the Swiss his interplay with Neville was excellent, really attacking football (even if they were a man down), and it shows that when the time is right, we will do it.

The bench is good, not great, and most that are there know that they are sitting there to make up the numbers. Personally I would have left behind Joe Cole and Kieron Dyer and took Jermain Defoe and/or James Beattie instead to give the attack a bit of a boost (remarkable statement given that we are currently the tourny top scorers, but owen has been looking tired, I wouldnt feel confident about Vassell over 90 mins and Heskey............holds the ball up well, but when you want goals, forget about it.

Bridge is going to end up as a World Class Left Back, and has looked that way in a half decent Chelsea defence this season. In fact the only player to have justified his price tag (with the exception of Duff).

I also agree with the comment made by the 2nd poster, just what was the point of the thread? You havent mentioned any dead wood, only that certain players are not playing as well as they can, but that you wouldnt drop them ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I, for one, do not feel that you could drop any of the first 11, because they simply are the best 11. What I would like to see though, is if we are in the lead against the Portuguese, then we leave Owen and Rooney on for the full 90 mins to ensure that we dont fall into the same sense of apathy that we showed against the French.

Better to die fighting for freedom than to be a prisoner all the days of your life

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LOL!

So when is Bridge going to be used? I said that he was a good player, but he`s the same as Ashley Cole. My point is that our bench is an average one and provides no other options (excluding Vassell).

Mattwhite1 said that he agreed with you, but then went on to say he would have left behind Joe Cole and Kieran Dyer! Then he dismissed Heskey as well! OK that`s half of the bench he doesn`t rate, and presumably he is not Phil Neville`s greatest supporter? That makes four!

At least Mattwhite1 argued his points, Nickthegun didn`t even try! He just used stupid abbreviations!!!!!!!!!!! :/

Let`s hope none of the nasty Portugese players kick Beckham in the next game as it may well affect his passing game! This is a contact sport mate, professional footballers should be able to cope with that!

You should become a football manager yourself as you have great knowledge of the game, although you are a little bit quick to ridicule people (like the original poster). Shame really.

Bridge is a useful squad player, who can play in several roles incase anyone gets injured. We cant just rely on our first 11 to stay fit all the time. Thats when Bridge is going to be used. And, as Matt said, he can only get better at Chelsea.

And i dont want to get into a `He just used stupid abbreviations!!!!!!!!!!!` style slagging match (well actually i do but i dont want my account suspended), but your point about Matt agreeing with me is just grasping at straws. He states that he agrees with my points, not adhering to them as religion. And when he goes on to state that he would have taken Beattie to give them extra fire power, he doesnt actually mention that he doesnt `Rate` the bench players.

I agree with him. I think we should have taken extra striking opions and Beattie would have been top of my list. But, as my world doesnt operate on schoolboy logic, that doesnt mean i think the player he should have replaced is crap.

I didnt specifically go out of my way to `Ridicule` the original poster, as i didnt go out my way to ridicule you. But if you post garbage onto a public forum, at some stage someone will pull you up on it.

You just got owned.