Page 1 of JOHN WOO IS OVER PRAISED (yes, I know I`m in the minority)!

I’m fed up with everyone praising John Woo. Okay, I haven’t seen that many of his Hong Kong movies and I hear they’re good. I hope they are because his latter work is hardly inspirational. Just over stylised, like a one-trick magician, a child who doesn’t know when to call it a day. He says he’s in love with slow-mo – shame he doesn’t use it more constructively or have a better than mediocre script to hang it on. People rant on about the bike chase in MI:2. That it’s this amazing action sequence and it might have been so had the script actually provided it with a decent enough function within the narrative to warrant it . Face Off was praised as the best action movie ever made. It was enjoyable enough but the last 5 minutes were atrocious. Tongue-in-cheek some might say but even an action flick has to have some credit.

I hear he’s inspired the likes of James Cameron and if that’s the case then it’s a great example of the student outshining his master

This item was edited on Monday, 23rd April 2001, 00:45

I would be tempted to agree with you Shenk-man, though I have only seen three of his movies. The first I saw was The Killer, which I thought was poor but (unintentionally?) quite funny! Broken Arrow was pretty dire, although he certainly redeemed himself with Face/Off - as good as Hollywood action movies get? - although I`m not much of a fan of those `big explosion` movies anyway...

This item was edited on Monday, 23rd April 2001, 07:46

Hmm, because James Cameron doesn`t indulge in shameless sentimentality or action sequences that don`t have a plot function?

lol.

--Mike

When I saw Broken Arrow I decided I would *never* see another Woo film if I could at all avoid it. Well unfortunately I broke this vow and saw MI:2, which has to go down in my book as possibly worse than Waterworld, a feat I didn`t think possible to achieve.

I`d like to point out something from both the above films which deserved any merit at all, but I can`t. Maybe his Hong Kong stuff is different, but so far his work in the west seems to me a waste of celuloid.

Personally I think the director is ultimately responsible for a picture, whether it be the attrocious acting, poor continuity, awful plot, crappy visual effects or terrible editing.

When you hear Ridley Scott talk about cutting the Alien out of most of Alien because it looked so much like a man in a suit, you know you have a director who understands the limitations of his craft and adapts to them.

Woo on the other hand just seems to make everything like it was a pop video. Interestingly exactly the same can be said of David Fincher`s first film, Alien 3, but after that he has produced some of the greatest films ever.

So I`m glad to say I`m also in the minority with you. :)

First off, to be fair, only `Hard Target` resembles the Hong Kong Woo to any extent, and it only passively. `Broken Arrow` could have been made by anyone, and `Face-Off` is far more glutonous than even `MI:2` (which, in all fairness, is good enough).

Secondly, the fact is, on a picture like MI:2 (and probably Broken Arrow as well) the director is simply not the last voice on anything when it comes round to what the movie actually ends up like. Woo probably didn`t even know the story of MI:2 when he started shooting, and the overtly American feel to many scenes suggests a great deal of second unit shooting took place. And this is not even mentioning the Cruise factor. He`s admitted in the past to pulling rank on directors (who`s surprised there?) but denied it in this case (again, what a suprise). Indeed, add Paramount`s desperation to grab the Summer`s biggest hit and you have a classic case of corporate filmmaking with the adage of a hired hand director (Woo) who will provide the occasional idiosyncratic flourish (doves) to give the film an iota of authorial credibility. And the assumption that its `all woo`s fault` just doesn`t stand up. Neither, funnily enough, does the fact that this particular cynical slice of Hollywood trash ended up not reaching many audiences expectations. Wow. What a surprise.

--Mike

Sorry guys - My mind only likes mindless action and fast chases and I think any film with his name in the director credit is worth a watch - I love to see what `tricks` he`s come up with in the film.

Admitidly MI2 was not as fab as hoped but it still had that wow factor in some scenes.

Joel Schumacher is another dude I would go to see what he`s conjured up.

Some directors just scream FAST ACTION and/or GREAT FILM.

Of course John Woo is overrated - he is part of Hollywood isnt he?

Practically all of John Woo`s American films have been pretty dire, with only a few decent bits in them. Hard Target had some nice kicks in it and MI2 had a few `ok` bits, but thats it really.

However..........all of his Hong Kong/foriegn (original) language films have been quite different. `Hard Boiled` , `The Killer` and `Bullet In The Head` have all been quite mad films and filled to the brim with guns + shooting + doves + more shooting. They work so much better than the tripe he seems to be making these days. You can just sit back and marvel at the balectic action sequences without having to listen to waffle from Van-Damme or Mr Cruise.

Oh and Tony Leung rocks. So does Chow Yun-Fat.

Funny you should mention this! While I thought Face Off and MI:2 were not crap but then not good, I thought I`d check out `A Better Tomorrow` as people kept mentioning how good it was. Well lets just say don`t waste your time it`s pants although not as bad as `Heros Shed No Tears`.

While before I was eager to check out `Hard Boiled`, `The Killer` and maybe `Bullet In The Head`, I`m in no hurry now!

007.

I don`t know how you can say a better tomorrow is pants, you should watch the second one aswell to as it continues the stoy, and the second one has some great action in it. Hard Boiled and The Killer ae great also,
People are right saying he should stop, Hard Target was a good film but after that its not been so good.

I think his dove thing is a bit of a cheap and tacky trick tbh, but then maybe I`m getting cynical. ;-)