Page 1 of SurroundSound

Help - I`m new to all this. I want to purchase a good HomeCinema system - either an all in package, or separates - that will produce a HomeCinema for dvd`s AND a good quality system for music cd`s. I`m thinking of either a complete package such as the Panasonic SCHT75 (Costco Price = 329 inc vat)(PS Is this hackable?) or buying separates to go with my existing dvd player (LG DVD-3200E). I went to RicherSounds who suggested a Panasonic SAHE9 AV amp (250 Pounds sterling) together with Mordaunt Short speakers. (500 GPB).However, this 5 speaker package worked out at 500 Pound sterling - which was a bit above my speaker budget of 250 pounds!!!!! Any advice would be appreciated. (Total budget = around 500-600). Many thanks.

This item was edited on Saturday, 7th September 2002, 18:32

Are you ready for this?

I think you are a bit limited by the budget, but I`m sure you can get something together. Seperates will give you better sound quality, and allow you to upgrade at a later date without junking the whole thing.

First of all, do you have a CD player already, or will you use the LG DVD player to play them too? DVD players tend not to be brilliant at playing CDs - well, certainly comapred with a dedicated CD player they`re not, anyway. I`m sure it will be fine, though - I use our Cyberhome DVD player as a CD player in our "baby" system room. Some DVD players do better than others - the Toshiba 220 is one - the Sony ?700 another (and it plays SACDs too) - worth considering as an upgrade later, perhaps?

Right, amplifier. If you listen to the radio, consider getting a receiver (i.e. an amp with tuner built in). The majority of AV amps these days actually seem to be receivers.
Over the past year there has been a slew of new models out, boasting the latest decoding technology - this being Prologic2 plus DD EX and DTS ES. I think these models are going to out of your budget. Don`t worry too much - Prologic2 makes a fine job of making stereo soundtracks (i.e. TV/VCR films) into pseudo 5.1 surround sound, but it`s hardly essential. DD (Dolby Digital) EX and DTS (Digital Theatre Sound) ES have extra rear surround channel(s) - again nice but not the end of the world. What you want is something that features Prologic (they all will), DD 5.1 (the most common modern "proper" surround format"), and DTS (non ES). DTS soundtracks are not available on every DVD, but when available and with reasonable equipment can usually sound a bit better than the 5.1 equivalent.
Richer Sounds really is the best place for cheap deals - they often have the slightly older stock available - you just have to ignore the sales people (unless you get a good one - the Watford store has always been excellent to me!). At that money, I`d say the Pansonic they recommended could be beaten stupid, but let`s not get on to that, as it`s out of your price range. Looking on the website, they cheapest DD/DTS machine is the Pioneer V510 - £110. However, it`s out of stock, and may be hard to find in stores, too. There was a recent thread re this beast - another on line reatailer has it for £130 odd, so have a check of that here http://www.dvd.reviewer.co.uk/forums/thread.asp?Forum=211&Thread=115761&Type=1 - here`s the link to the supplier with it for £130 delivered - http://www.dvdmagic.net/amps/p510.html. Alternatively, I`d recommend the Yamaha RXV520RDS at £170 (again out of stock on the website, but might be worth a look around). I have the older Yammy A5, and it`s great. Persoanlly, I`d avoid any of the Sherwood stuff, as they are renowned for being poor at reproducing music - one of your criteria.

Right, it looks like the Pioneer is going to be the fella for you. Let`s assume you`ve got that for £130, leaving £120 for speakers.
There are bundles of speakers at the £99 mark such as the Eltax Starlight system, which are based around 5 small "satellite" speakers, which only reproduce the higher frequencies, coupled with a subwoofer for the low frequency grunt. At this price range, I`d say these would again not do a great job with music. You might be better off getting some decent front speakers, not bothering with a centre for the time being (the amp should have (can`t say for certain for this model, though, so check before you go down this route) a "phantom centre" mode that feeds the centre channel to the front pair), and getting a cheap pair of surrounds (or using some existing speakers for the time being) until you can afford some good `uns. This way, you`ll get good music reproduction through the front speakers, which will also handle the low stuff well enough until you start hankering after a dedicated subwoofer to frighten the dog with. Have a look at Mission speakers - Richer offer some 702 floorstanders for £99, or they have the stand mountable 700 for £50 - ad the cost of stands to that, though. Empire Direct are apparently doing the Mission M72s for just over £80, which is a bargain. In the Richer Sounds speaker packages section, you`ll find some cheap Sony bundles (rears plus centre for £30!!) which may well keep you going.

Right, so we have:
Pioneer V510 - £130
Mission 700 - £50
Sony SSCD490 - £30

Leaving £40 change. Go to http://www.beyondhifi.net and get yourself a good scart cable - the BTech range is excellent. It WILL make a difference to the picture if you`re still using the cable the DVD player came with. You`ll also need a cable to send the audio from the DVD to the amp for decoding - this will either be a coaxial or optical lead - it looks like your DVD player only has Coaxial - fortunately the Pioneer has coaxial input too, so we`re away! Again, go for the BTech - the Phono RCA Plug to Phono RCA Plug (this IS a coax lead, don`t worry!) in the "Hi-Fi Leads / Optical & Digital Leads / B-Tech Z Range" section will do the job nicely!

You`ll also need some speaker cable. You can spend a LOT on this stuff, but as long as you don`t use that horrid bell wire sold as speaker cable, you should be OK. I actually use mains cable (the twin and earth stuff used for wiring houses) for my surround speakers - at £10 for 50m, it`s very cheap!
However, it`s not very flexible, so being lazy, why not get some from Beyondhifi again - in the "Hi-Fi Leads / Speaker & Subwoofer Cable / TechLink Cable - Professional" section, you`ll see they have some 79 strand stuff ("Professional Speaker Cable 79 Strand") for £10 for 20m, which should be enough.
So, cables look like this:
BTECH Scart lead XV211M5 1.5Mtrs Lead £11.69
BTECH Phono RCA Plug to Phono RCA Plug XCX-1M5 1.5 metre cable £5.88
TechLink Professional Speaker Cable 79 Strand-20 metre pack £11.75
Carriage: £7.41
Total (inc VAT): £36.73

...which leaves you £3.27 change!

How`s that? Hope this helps, rather than confuses. You can obviously pick and choose and the budget will creep up and up, but short of going secondhand, I reckon that`s as good value as you`ll get! If you have an old pair of speakers you could press into duty as surround speakers, then go with the phantom centre idea, and spend a bit more of the fronts - they`ll do you proud for a long time, so it`s worth doing it right! When you have a bit more cash available, you can do no better than a pair of Mission 77DS surround speakers - a bargain at £99 a pair, but beyond your means for the moment.

I`m resigning.... :-)

Also you should look at the Yamaha 396, which is £119, only Dolby Digital, but if it`s multi channel sound you want it`s an excellent step on the ladder, plus it`s pretty good with music too, though within your budget it`s a pre-requisite that you aren`t going to get earth shattering results, adequate and modest i think the term is. Still, you can`t grumble! Available at http://www.richer.co.uk.

Speaker wise Rich has it covered, so i won`t add anything to that as within your budget you can`t really stretch to anything else!

Perhaps though, you could try Sony`s fantastic new `BABE` system, which i heard at John Lewis on my travels this week. I`ve seen it at http://www.hifibitz.co.uk for £219 and it is superb. 5 tiny sattelites, a super little sub, plus Dolby/DTS 5.1 and Dolby Pro Logic 2 processing built in. I was amazed, and if i can get hold of one, (i`ll probably end up buying one, the DVD player in the lounge is looking very lonely..), i`ll get a review done for Area450. Believe me, this supercedes my original fave, the Yamaha VS-10, and it`s so cute and cuddly too!

Hope all of this helps, don`t forget, demand a demonstration before you part with cash, it`ll be worth every penny if this is your first system.

And then of course, there`s the upgrade bug to look forward to...(sigh)

Westy

This item was edited on Saturday, 7th September 2002, 13:17

Richard H. This response is absolutely fantastic!!!! And I`m very grateful for the time & trouble you`ve gone to for such a detailed comprehensive response!!! It`s just brilliant!
I too have previously gone to RicherSounds for my HiFi & dvd player, since I`ve always found their staff to be very knowledgable and helpful. I know it`s asking a lot to want a good HomeCinema system and one the will play music cd`s ok as welI - but my living room space is limited. However, my budget is actually around 250-300 pounds (the pound key on my keyboard isn`t working hence calling it "pounds" instead of the usual pound sign!) for the AV Amp plus about the same for the 5 speakers making this around 500-600 pounds altogether.
I know this is asking a lot - but could I possibly pleaseask you to suggest separates based on this budget????? Your input/advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, Bullitt2

Hello Vicar!!

Right, if that`s what you`ve got to spend, then you can get an absolutely blinding set up for that sort of money.

First, i`d suggest the Marantz 4200, which at last sight was £199 at http://www.richer.co.uk. It hasn`t got 6.1 like some other amps, but you don`t need that yet, good old 5.1 is a great starting point and the amp also has Dolby Pro Logic 2 which to me is a superb and very worthy surround processing format.

For speakers, The Wharfedale 8.3`s, here http://www.hifistore.co.uk/product.php?qsProd=DIAMOND83 for £164 are outstanding budget floorstanders, add the matching centre, here http://www.hifistore.co.uk/product.php?qsProd=DIAMOND8C for £79, and then hunt down some Mission 77ds from Richer Sounds, (this may take some doing as they`re in very short supply now!), and absolute bargain at £99,(just ask Richard!!), again, http://www.richer.co.uk

Use the cables from http://www.beyondhifi.net, a £12 ribbon scart, some Ross superflat cable for £16.50 for a 30ft reel, and a nice coaxial lead for £5, finished off with some good interconnects for the analogue outputs of the player to amp, (DPL2 will only work with an analogue feed), for £5.

Total cost= £574.50!

Enough for a copy of Monsters Inc to try it all out with and maybe two pints of lager!!

Westy

RichardH

You do love your Mission 77ds dont you, cant remember one advice post when you havent mentioned them, but i bought them on your advice and they are the plums. Top advice mate

Dare i say i had some influence in that decision!... ;-)

Indeed you did Mr West, managed to get me to shy away from a HTiB and get myself a lovely Yamaha 630 and mission speakers, and for this advice i shall be forever in your debt. Just need to decide on a sub now.

Westy - Thanks for such a fantastic detailed response!!! In fact thanks to everyone who has responded.I think I`m sold on the Marantz 4200 AV Amp, since this also seems to have received fave reviews in What HiFi. (is there a Yamaha equivalent to this?). Same for the Mission (rear)speakers. I`m not so sure about the Wharfedale speakers for the front though. I have no doubt that the sound quality must be the dogs bollocks - it`s just a space problem. Are there any equivalent sound quality speakers - but a little smaller?

Geezer - only mentioned them fairly recently, as only got them into action about 4 weeks ago. I`m well pleased with them though, they do knock spots off the M7DS I have in the "other" system (crikey that sounds pretentious). Mind you, I still have another pair waiting to do rear surround duty - not plumbed them in yet, although they`re up on the wall.

Yo Westy - you`re always the man - don`t resign!!!

bullitt2 - glad to be of help - if you love music, definitely listen to the Marantz - the modern Yammy equivalent would be the x30 series (i.e. 430/630). The Marantz jobbies apparently do the business with music, as well as films. I`d say the only way to seriously drop the speaker size would be go bookshelf tyle thing, plus a sub, but you may find the budget a bit knackered, as you NEED to spend a reasonable amount on a ssub for it to be worthwhile.

have a look here http://www.thehallmans.org/cinema in the current room section for piccys of a "stealth" system using bookshelf speakers (Misison M71) plus sub.


Apologies if a little incoherent - a few large glasses of wine before food and i`m all over the shop!

This item was edited on Sunday, 8th September 2002, 20:20