Page 1 of DVD Recorder thread - technical questions and answers only please

This thread is for all technical questions about DVD recording.

Any posts which stray from that convention will be deleted immediately.

Please do not use this thread to argue for and against the specific formats. Feel free to carry those debates elsewhere.

Thank you for your co-operation.

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Moderator
DVD Reviewer

Webmaster of Area 450 - independent Sampo DVD site

I had read that Sampo may be releasing a DVD Recorder, what formats and quality of recordings will it support?

Hi Davo

Yes, Sampo are due to release a recorder. It will be in the DVD+R/+RW camp, and ill support six different recorder settings.

Funnily enough, CIrrus Logic (the company who provided most of the components) have actually issued more press releases about the recorder than Sampo themselves.

The original prototype, which was sent from Sampo Taiwan to Sampo America is actually in the hands of my US counterpart at Area 450, Craig Clontz, who is rigorously testing it. Sadly, he`s found a couple of faults on the prototype unit which aren`t great confidence boosters.

The original recorder, called the DV-R1, is a rather swoopily designed unit (ovoid ? elliptical ? not quite sure), but totally impractical - you certainly can`t stack anything on top of it !

However, after testing, Sampo America decided they would not go for that particular casing, stating that it added way too much to the production cost to enable the company to keep it under the magic $400 price tag. So, at present, Taiwan are in the process of sending a more conventional, rectangular player (with the same components under the hood) to Sampo America - they expect to receive it shortly, and we will get it to review a few weeks after that.

I`m also given to understand that Taiwan have made a sale of 10,000 units to a European retailer, although at this stage we don`t know whether it`ll be the ovoid casing or the rectangular casing. Clearly, this will be an OEM sale (Sampo have never been able to establish themselves as a brand name in their own right in Europe, apart from some minor success in 1999/2000 in Germany), so I expect it to be some other weird and wonderful brand name resurrected from the past. Whether they`ll be on sale in the UK is not known at present - we should know soon, as they are supposed to reach their destination during September.

You may find the section about the DV-R1 here over at Area 450 interesting. Craig is still putting the finishing touches to his review, so that should appear soon too :)
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Moderator
DVD Reviewer

Webmaster of Area 450 - independent Sampo DVD site

Thanks for that, I had already checked the link info out and it is very interesting indeed.

I will wait with baited breath for the review, but in the meantime, do you have or can you get hold of any more details about the quality settings for various recording modes?

I have always been puzzled by them and would find it really helpful if someone could say, a very good transfer on DVD has a ???? bitrate, and recording on a Sampo, Panny, Philips, etc. in EP,SP, LP, mode results in a ???? bitrate. This would be very helpful info as it would give a good indication of the resulting record quality.

I have the Panasonic E50 which has settings of 1hr - XP, 2hr - SP, 4hr - LP, 6 Hr - EP and also a FR ( Flexible Recording) setting which can be made anywhere from 1 to 6 Hrs. ( Good for 90 min camcorder tapes)

Bit Rate! - Well you can show the rate on screen when you are playing a program but it is a variable one so the rate jumps about alot!

In XP & SP the picture is as good as the original. With LP which I use most there is some blocking but the picture is very watchable. EP is only for emergencys but is worth having.

I will have a better look at the bite rates latter

JVC DR-M1 DVD Recorder with PAL Progressive and Multi-Format Compatibility

Right here (AGAIN) is the information for this new DVD-RAM, DVD-RW & DVD-R recorder.

hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesnews/news20030618-03.html


ALSO...www.dvdinsider.com/news/view.asp?ID=4974

& here you will be able to buy one (at least it`s a guide price)... https://secure.cheapelectricals.co.uk/acatalog/Catalogue_DVD_recorder_198.html

This item was edited on Sunday, 24th August 2003, 18:18

Here is a listing of DVD-RAM compatable makes.

The Recordable DVD Council is taking action to promote producers to make products DVD-RAM compatible:
www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/New...?RelatedID=4031

More info of the Recordable DVD Council`s home page:
www.rdvdc.org/english/

The members list is quite extensive so hopefully compatibility of RAM will slowly increase:
- Almedio Inc.
- Alpine Electronics, Inc.
- AMC Co., Ltd.
- Asaca Corporation
- Asahi Kasei Microsystems Co., Ltd.
- B.H.A Corporation
- BeAll Developers, Inc.
- BLUE TEK Co., Ltd.
- Broadfield Distributing Inc
- Canopus Co., Ltd.
- CenDyne, Inc.
- CMC Magnetics Corporation
- CyberLink Inc.
- Daewoo Electronics Co. Ltd.
- DAX Archiving Solutions
- DENON, Ltd.
- DVS Korea Co., Ltd
- Emuzed Inc.
- Expert Magnetics Corp.
- Fuji Photo Film Co.,Ltd.
- Fujifilm Microdevices Co.,Ltd.
- Fujitsu Ten Limited
- Funai Electric Co.,Ltd.
- Gear Software
- Gigmedia Publications
- HEURIS
- Hitachi Media Electronics Co.,Ltd.
- Hitachi-LG Data Storage,Inc.
- Hitachi Ltd.
- Hitachi Maxell Ltd.
- Ikegami Tsushinki Co.,Ltd.
- IMAGICA Corp.
- Intervideo Japan Inc.
- Japan Broadcasting Corporation
- Kenwood Corporation
- Konica Corporation
- Kyokuto Boeki Kaisha,Ltd.
- Kyushu Matsu****a Electric Co.,Ltd.
- Lead Data Inc.
- LG Electronics Inc.
- LSI Logic Corporation
- MAGIX AG
- Matsu****a Kotobuki Electronics Industries,Ltd.
- Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (Panasonic)
- MedioStream
- Memorex Products,Inc.
- Memory-Tech Corporation
- Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation
- Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
- Mitsui Chemicals,Inc.
- Mitsumi Electric Co.,Ltd.
- NewSoft Technology Corporation
- New Tech Infosystems, Inc.(NTI)
- Nippon Precision Circuits Inc.
- Onkyo Corporation
- OPT Corporation
- Opticord, Inc.
- Optodisc Technology Corporation
- Orion Electric Co.,Ltd.
- Pinnacle Systems
- Portlock Software
- Prodisc Technology Inc.
- Pulstec Industrial Co.,Ltd.
- RiTEK Corporation
- Roxio, Inc.
- Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
- Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
- SCM Microsystems Inc.
- Saehan Media
- Sharp Corporation
- Shibasoku Co.,Ltd.
- Shinano Kenshi Co.,Ltd.
- SKC Co.,Ltd.
- Software Architects, Inc.
- Sonic Solutions
- Spatializer Audio Laboratories, Inc.
- TDK Corporation
- TEAC Corporation
- Teijin Chemicals Ltd.
- Texas Instruments Japan Limited
- The Technology of Electronics,Information & Communication Inc.
- Toshiba Corporation
- Ulead Systems,Inc.
- Unaxis Japan Co.,Ltd.
- Victor Company of Japan, Limited (JVC)
- Zoran Japan Corporation

This item was edited on Sunday, 24th August 2003, 18:19

The DVD standard is for an MPEG-2 bitrate between roughly 2 and 10 Mbit/sec. The highest bit rate offers roughly one hour of transmission standard video on one DVD - whatever format AFAIK. The Standard Play bitrate is 5.07Mbps, yielding 2hrs on a single side, single layer disc.

Remember there`s no such animal as a double layer recordable disc, only double sided.

The PAL resolution for DVD is 720x576, known as D1. Recording longer than 2hrs requires lower bitrates - 4.06Mbps yields 150 minutes, and most manufacturers appear to use that as the minimum for recording in D1. By halving the resolution to 360x576, you get Half D1, which enables lower bitrates without introducing undue artefacting. The image can be compared with VHS, rather than transmission standard. 3hrs can be recorded at 3.38Mbps, 4hrs at 2.54Mbps. 6hrs is achievable with a bitrate of 1.70Mbps, which is the lowest used for Half D1. Machines offering 8hrs record in VCD resolution - 352x288, at a bitrate of 1.27Mbps.

Formats may vary.

J Mark Oates

Quote:
do you have or can you get hold of any more details about the quality settings for various recording modes?

From the DVD plus RW unoffiical site

Depending on the DVD+R/+RW recorder model, there can be up to 6 levels: HQ is targeted at around 10 Mbit/sec resulting in 1 hour of the highest quaility video, SP is targeted at 5 Mbit/sec resulting in 2 hours of DVD-Video comparable quality, SP+ is targeted at 4 Mbit/sec resulting in 2.5 hours of near-DVD quality, LP is targeted at 3.4 Mbit/sec and delivers a quality better than S-VHS for 3 hours, EP is targeted at 2.5 Mbit/sec, provides for 4 hours at a better than VHS quality level and finally EP+ for 6 hours of VHS quality video. It is possible to use various quality settings for different recordings on the same disc. All recording modes are equally as compatible with DVD-Video players, since they use the exact same encoding method as defined for DVD-Video.

===========
Moderator
DVD Reviewer

Webmaster of Area 450 - independent Sampo DVD site

Now d`you believe me ;)

Edited to include new point:

Gingerone asked (in another thread):
Quote:
How does normal dvd playback sound and picture quality compare to average stand alone players on most recordable players? Is it any less quality or just as good?

If I follow you correctly - DVD Recorders (any format) offer a range of recording qualities that range from (roughly) Superbit quality down to VHS quality. I`ve covered the image qualities in one of the posts above. On the sound side, DVD Recorders record audio at 48000Kbps, which is better than CD quality. My recorder carries sound as Dolby Digital 2.0, but recorders can also use MPEG-2 and PCM formats. Remember you can`t expect to record a tv programme with plain vanilla Dolby Surround and have it turn magically into DD5.1 or DTS (although future machines will include such options when more broadcasters and their equipment provide the signals). Virtually all DVD equipment includes digital out (either coaxial or SPDIF), so a home theatre amplifier can do wonders for the quality of the output.

(Try the Battle of Helm`s Deep with the wick turned right up on your HT Amp) 8)

DVD Recorders will do everything DVD Players can do, although multiregion hacking can be a risky business. I have a recorder and a budget player, so if the mood takes me I can watch a disc while I record one.

J Mark Oates

This item was edited on Thursday, 28th August 2003, 01:34