Page 1 of Centre Speaker - Do you really need it at home?

I have just got my Yamaha DSP-E800. Unfortunately with the dialogue now more focussed on the centre speaker it has hightlighted its deficiences compared to right and left. The problem is exacerbated by the speaker having to sit on the glass shelf below the telly, it won`t fit on top even if my wife would allow such an unsightly positioning. I can`t believe that it would be any better hanging on the wall above the telly...

The question is - do I really need it? Has anyone done any experimentation on this in their own living rooms. Dialogue certainly sounds better without it, but am I losing out on the effect to any noticeable degree? The main speakers are about 2 metres apart.

Voles

If you`re playing a dolby digital disk then, yes, you`re going to need that centre channel as there are 5 discrete channels. If you just listen is stereo, then no sound should be coming through the center channel anyway.

What exactly is your set up and what type are audio decoding is giving you problems? Or is your problem that your center speaker isn`t as good as your left & right and so the center sound track doesn`t sounds as good as it did when you where playing it in stereo through just the left and right.

You have the idea in you second paragraph. The centre speaker and/or its positioning on the glass shelf mean that the sound is better without it.

The DSP-E800 has the facility to send the centre channel to both speakers as a mono signal mixed with right and left. I know that the centre channel is designed to seperate dialogue from the rest of the racket, but as we are happy enought with stereo, is it really needed. No problem with the surround speakers...yet.

The centre is arguably the most important part of a surround system as it makes you focus on the dialogue. The speech is supposed to come out of the centre so I`m not sure what you want from this.
I`ve got the yammy 800 too and I think you need to adjust the sound levels down the way to make the dialogue less intrusive. I had to turn the centre and rear volumes down about 11 clicks on each (-11) so that the sound levels are similar between the processor and the stereo amp.

Yes but the dialogue still comes `out the centre` if you are sitting in line with the mid point between the speakers. This is not usually possible in a cinema of course - which is I suppose why the centre channel was brought in.

I assume you have experimented with `Centre Speaker: none` like myself.

Incidentally I have to turn the effect speakers UP by about 7 to balance them. I have never seen anyone suggest that dialoue was intrusive before - the problem with the extended dynamic range is the at `normal` listening levels for the background racket, the dialogue is too low.

I suppose really I just want to grab the glass shelf for the DSP rather than having it sitting on the floor:-)

Voles

i dont understand the argument here,cinemas have more than one dialogue(centre)speaker to `lock` the on screen action to the screen.you dont mention what the rest of your system is-is it that the main stereo speakers arent up to the job?plus,by downmixing the centre channel into the main stereo pair(phantom mode) then you`re missing vital elements in the digital soundtrack. i suggest that you and your partner come to some sort of compromise-you can put the speaker on the telly(putting it under in that cramped space is hurting the dynamics),and she can carry on buying expensive coats and £5 a time make up!-plus ensure that the centre setting is `small`,all but the most high end of systems sound much much better this way.
let me know what your system is,i will prove that the centre speaker is needed!!i cant imagine dolby or dts without it

Well my partner does not wear makeup or expensive coats unless you count walking gear - she would probably rather spend money on feeding and clothing her family as a whole, especially with her husband`s extravagance to cope with. However,I am trying to bring her round to the speaker being on top of the telly. It does sound better up there! The top of my sony W/S is not an ideal platform however.

Ignoring the implication that I am in some sort ot 60s timewarp as far as my relationship goes, here is a rough rundown of the system.

Scan SC2000
Yamaha DSPE800
Linn Kollektor + Linn LK85 (Pre and Power Amp)
Left and Right Speakers - Monitor size floor standing Snell Loudspeakers (don`t know the model number off hand - they are fairly venerable but are still bright and efficient)
Centre Gale 20
Surround Gale 10


There is no argument really. The system sounds better (i.e. in pure non-directional sonic terms) without the centre speaker, but the surround effect is slightly decreased. I am just trying to gather some opinions from those with more experience of home cinema systems. I have learnt already that apart from action/adventure type films, the effects tend to be used quite subtly anyway. I don`t live in a cinema and I do sit on the mid point to watch films.

My wife,bless her little cotton socks, has discerned no difference in sound since the DSP arrived, apart from greater complications in operating the telly! She did suggest putting the centre speaker high on the wall between the surround speakers.

Voles

Norman,

You seem to have the same problem as me. I bought home cinema gear two months ago and have also have centre speaker problems. I originally placed the speaker underneath the TV on one of the glass shelves. The sound was quite dull and "boxy". I tried it on top of the TV and although it improved there was still some resonance especilly noticeable with male voices. This seems to be due to the relatively flimsy TV cabinet. This is worse with Sky Pro Logic broadcasts than with DVDs.

I`m now considering buying one of those specialist TV cabinets similar to those for hi-fi systems. At £300 it is steep but my dealer says it should improve the centre speaker sound considerably.

The sound of voices does sound much better through the two stereo speakers than from the centre speaker despite claims that this is a specialist speaker. I shall probably buy the stand on a trial basis (the dealer is very co-operative) and make a final decision after some intensive tests.

Even though I can place the centre speaker on the top of the TV it looks pretty bad given that the TV is in a window bay. I really hope that placing it on a proper support underneath the TV will be the answer. You don`t say what type of support your TV is on but I assume it`s on a standard TV stand. It may be worth your while trying a dedicated stand.

Equipment is as follows: -

JVC 32" widescreen TV
Denon A10SE
B&W CM4
B&W CMC
Ruark Talismans (rear)
Philips DVD950 player.

Ray.

Norman,

am I right in thinking that you find the centre channel harsh rather than weak? If not ignore the rest of this...

Are you sure that you are listening to dolby digital 5.1 soundtracks decoded in the proper way or is it simply dolby surround/pro-logic track?

The reason I ask the obvious question is because it almost hurts my ears whenever I listen to a DVD or even stereo source in Pro-logic mode. This would be in common with the perception of the sound you have. I find that the pro-logic can sound almost like the front of the system is mono, with dialogue cutting through too brightly and a bias of the left front channel getting quieter as dialoge occurs. I made an error when fiddling with my system and turning off the DVD players digital output. This forced me to listen to Pro-logic soundtracks until I remembered what I`d done. Check that this is not the case with your player. I don`t know that much about the processor but you should be able to switch between 5.1 and pro-logic, just make sure that everything`s set up correctly i.e. the DVD player is set to output digitally, the Yamaha is set to process 5.1 or DTS depending on the soundtrack and that the main stereo pairs volume is balanced with the volume coming out of the Yamaha.

Forgive me if you`ve done all this, just trying to help. It`s not unreasonable to believe that you may have made the same mistakes as me!?

This item was edited on Friday, 15th June 2001, 18:03

In a word yes you do need a center speaker in any surround sound system cos all your vocals come though this way that goes for dd 5.1 and pro logic aswell unless your tv has it built in and you dont want a seperate hifi decoder (that is the best way) but having it on the tv as better than nothing at all and i remember people saying" i have a nicam stereo tv should i put speakers on it " the answer is yes again because it gives you seperation between channels and a more realistic sound ! hope it helps ....baza